yonmei

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10:09 pm: I stopped reading Savage Love because of the racism, but...
I used to find Dan Savage fairly entertaining. And probably still would, when he's got his dander up and is spilling vitrolic abuse all over straight men with massive cases of entitlement.

Then after Prop 8 passed in California he joined the whiter-than-white brigade of gay people blaming "African-Americans" for the success of Prop 8, and I drifted away because who needs the aggro?

Echidne of the Snakes, I think, linked me to a post he made yesterday - not a Savage Love column, which I haven't read in months, but one of his blog posts. Title, "Gay People Can Quote The Bible Too".

The pic is of (a man, I think) someone holding a white placard, on which is the text
"A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed" (Deuteronomy 22:13-21) cite
It's hard to number how many ways that sign fails.

(My favourite example of Mosaic law to quote back at people who tell me that being gay is a sin because "it says so in the Bible!" is the part about not eating bacon and not eating "milk and meat". Eating at McDonalds is an abomination - it says so in the Bible, what with all the cheeseburgers and bacon - and yet how often do you see conservative Christians standing around outside a McDonalds waving placards and demanding that the law act to stop people from going to hell by eating there?)

Also, it appears that not content with campaigning to deny healthcare to people with no money and/or expensive things gone wrong with them, right-wing Christians in the US now propose a sustained attack on healthcare clinics for women - from Wednesday 23rd September to 1st November, a campaign called "40 Days For Life", the plan is to try and organise mobs of anti-choice activists to visit 122 clinics across the US and harass the staff and the patients. All this only a few months after an anti-choice activist murdered Doctor George Tiller:
Anti-choicers harassed his patients, day in and day out. They bombed his clinic. They shot him once before. They filed lawsuit after lawsuit and even convinced local prosecutors to launch criminal investigations and trials (none were successful). They published his home address and the full names of his family members on their websites. They posted information about anyone who did business with him, from where he got his coffee to where he did his dry cleaning.

They had him and his staff wearing bullet-proof vests to work every day. Tiller drove an armoured car and protected his home with a state-of-the-art security system. And, to better enable stalking and harassment, they posted his daily comings and goings – including the fact that he attended services every Sunday at Reformation Lutheran Church, the place where he was ultimately shot and killed. cite


Since 1977, pro-lifers have murdered 10 people - mostly doctors - have attempted to murder at least 17 more; there have been at least 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, three kidnappings, 654 anthrax letters (none of which actually contained anthrax - yet), 41 clinic bombings, 175 arson attacks... latest figures. This represents only the crimes reported to the police that were identified as pro-lifer anti-clinic violence.

Against this announcement of an organised terrorist campaign, there seems to be... a Facebook group.

But Dan Savage likes him a placard about killing women for not being virgins. Well, let me remember not to go to his site for any reason any more...

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Comments

[User Picture]
From:[info]strangerian
Date:dayordSeptember 2009 10:07 pm (UTC)
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Assuming that the sign in the picture is meant as an anti- anti-gay sign, I decode the message as being "straight marriages in the U.S. don't fulfill Biblical condition, so it's nonsense to say same-sex marriages aren't Biblically approved and straight marriage are."

Is the implicit comparison to Muslim extremist faction practices skirting racism? A sign pointing out that two kinds of religious extremists both treat women as disposable objects, doesn't strike me as highlighting racial differences.
[User Picture]
From:[info]yonmei
Date:dayordSeptember 2009 08:25 am (UTC)
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Assuming that the sign in the picture is meant as an anti- anti-gay sign, I decode the message as being "straight marriages in the U.S. don't fulfill Biblical condition, so it's nonsense to say same-sex marriages aren't Biblically approved and straight marriage are."

Probably. After all, how many men have proposed to their wives by offering their fathers many goats?

Is the implicit comparison to Muslim extremist faction practices skirting racism? A sign pointing out that two kinds of religious extremists both treat women as disposable objects, doesn't strike me as highlighting racial differences.

No, I thought it was classic sexism: after all, there are many examples of Mosaic law which declare things to be abominations which most Americans do not follow or even think about. They don't all involve killing women. Moreover, a conservative Christian who opposes gay marriage likely believes women ought to be virgin when they marry, so...
[User Picture]
From:[info]babydraco
Date:dayordSeptember 2009 12:22 am (UTC)
(Link)
"A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed" (Deuteronomy 22:13-21) cite


I don't know how many times people try that one and think it's a good argument and it's not. Because conservative Christians have whole long explanations for why it's not relevant but their stance *is*.

The "judge not/do unto others" stuff tends to work way better
[User Picture]
From:[info]yonmei
Date:dayordSeptember 2009 08:22 am (UTC)
(Link)
I don't know how many times people try that one and think it's a good argument and it's not. Because conservative Christians have whole long explanations for why it's not relevant but their stance *is*.

It's also not a good argument because conservative Christians do think a wife should be virgin when she gets married.

The "judge not/do unto others" stuff tends to work way better

Oh, sure, quoting Jesus at Christians sometimes works. Not often, though, in my experience, because that breed of Christian doesn't care what Jesus said - they know what's right.

No, I go for citing the weirdnesses of Mosaic Law and demanding they justify why it's OK for them to engage in cafeteria Orthodoxy, picking and choosing from some bits and not others.

I mean, you're not going to convince them, because for them their bigotry comes first and their religion is then used to justify it, so you might as well have fun...
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